Adoption Tea Time

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:22 pm**

http://www.thiswomanswork.com/?p=2204

I have lots of thoughts and posted about it on SoA but thought I'd see what you all thought before I put them here.

:hug:

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:14 pm**

Everyone has their own opinions about primal wound. I used to be very closed minded to it. Now I'm trying to be more open minded to it. Dawn (the author) and I have disagreed on many issues but we recently we had a nice email discussion and I think she's decided that I'm not a monster because I don't believe in visits. Outside of that I'll keep my mouth closed on this entry.

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:58 pm**

I've started responding to this several times and then have backed out to gather my thoughts some more. Camille, I would be interested to read what you shared on SoA (I'm not a participant there.)

I believe that each child is different, and each child will have questions, emotions, etc. regarding his/her adoption at different stages in life and to varying degrees. I do not hold to the "primal wound" theory which presupposes that every child has wounds to heal in relation to his/her adoption.

I do believe that each child deserves the right to a secure family environment, and that in the best interest of the child if visits begin to interfere with that security and become emotionally upsetting for him/her - then the adults in the child's life truly need to evaluate what is best for the child. That said, there are going to be emotional moments no matter what, and I do think it's important for parents to seize those opportunities to work through feelings and fears with their son or daughter, and to let him/her know that it's okay to talk about it and to feel those things - as this mother did.

I've been thinking about this a lot tonight, and one thing I wanted to say is that the biggest "wound" or "void" in anyone's life is the one that only God can fill. The adult adoptees that I know who are most at peace with life and adoption are those who didn't find their true identity in being their adoptive parents' child or their biological parents' child ... but God's child. Just something to consider!

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:23 pm**

I, too, have started to respond, only to change my mind.

Perhaps another day!! :idontknow:

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:38 pm**

Don't feel badly about that ladies. I read that article 12 days ago and then posted at SoA TODAY. I still don't think I'm done sorting through my feelings about it.

Deanna - good to hear you aren't a monster :giggle:

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:14 am**

I read the article and do have some thoughts, but will post when its not so late and I'm more awake. :yawn:

Judy

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:23 am**

I have some feelings on it, too, but am reserving my comments.

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:13 am**

I read the article again - still thinking it through. However, my reaction hasn't changed.

I do not feel this child (whom I am assuming is about 2 or 3 years of age) was being anything other than a toddler! I have seen scenerios such as this over and over. . . the person or object they are crying out for - is almost always the person they saw last, the child they were playing with earlier or the object they may have been holding or playing with. This is so common! When this happens, we console a child, help them feel better, allow them to share their feelings, until they are awake and alert - when that happens all around them becomes good! :hug:

I believe 2 or sometimes even 3 years of age is too young to even attempt to explain "adoption", "birthmothers" or for heaven sake, "uteruses"!

If this mother truly believes Jessica is the cause of this emotional outburst, perhaps she needs to reevaluate the relationship - it may not be as healthy as she would like, at this time. IMO this child was not necessarily having an emotional breakdown over her birthmother.

Perhaps she needs to evaluate herself - is she reacting in a way to make up for problems or feelings she herself is having trouble with?
Children are stronger and more adaptable than we adults. In many situations, the child is absolutely fine - the parent is a wreck. It's so easy to twist a situation or blow it out of proportion to meet our own needs.
Without realizing it, this does more damage than good.

I think I'll stop at that - I'd love to hear what you all are thinking.
Seriously, this is the type of conversation we can all have - share thoughts, ideas, etc...and all come out learning something!

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:30 am**

Pep,
You shared your thoughts so clearly, and I feel that your input carries added weight as someone who spends many, many hours caring for children from all different backgrounds on a regular basis! I, too, feel that often normal, childhood fears and reactions can be mistakenly called "adoption issues" when they truly are not. Thank you for sharing!

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:45 pm**

I agreee 100% Patti! Thanks for being able to use the words so respectfully and eloquently. Much better job than I could have done! :hug:

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:58 pm**

Hmmm....while I do believe that, sometimes, there is a primal wound, I am just having trouble believing that it is affecting her daughter like that at such a young age. I wonder if the daughter just kept saying "yes" to her Mother's questions because it sounded good, not because that's how she is actually feeling? Heck, I could say a million things to DS right now and he will just answer "no" to most of them, not meaning he really even understands what I am saying or even cares what I am saying.

My personal opinion, not judging to trying to convince anyone, is that the more kids *don't* know, the more they will wonder and worry about. If we don't talk about their birthparents (even just by saying we don't know anything about them), will they wonder what we are hiding? If we don't allow visits, at least when they are old enough to ask for them, if is because their birthparents are bad? Will they then wonder if THEY (the child) are bad, too (as they share the same genes)?

Sorry, but while I won't reject the concept of a primal wound, I just don't buy into it at this early of an age. While I will acknowledge that he may one day have "wounds", I also won't allow for them to be his crutch or mine for problems in our lives or our relationship.

JMHO....

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:17 pm**

I'll come post my response from SoA here in a little bit when I have time to find it again. lol

I do want to say that it doesn't seem particularly fair to just dismiss Dawn's motherly intuition so easily.

If you read more of her stuff I think you will that she seems to be a wonderful intuitive mother. I don't doubt her ability to decipher what is happening with her daughter.

I think most children certainly don't react that way - especially so young but I also do think it's possible that she is DID & that her mother knew exactly what she was talking about.

I'll be back with my post

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:39 pm**

From SoA:

I hope I can do justice to my thoughts on this article. I've read this thread and one other cross-posted one. (the one that didn't turn out quite so nice! :whistling: )

I've been thinking about this for 12 days now. I've thought about it everyday.

First - I bawled like a baby. After much thought I think my gut reaction was more because of Dawn's so wonderfully intuitive connection to her daughter. I am "obsessed" with Attachment Parenting and Dawn sounds like my kind of mommy friend! I may be smitten for real

I'm not really a believer of the full primal wound theory. I DO think there is something there that needs studied. There is a sense of loss in adoption no matter how you spin it. I think perhaps everyone doesn't term it that way because it depends on way too many factors.... well, how you incorporate or adjust or deal with the loss as an adoptee depends on way to many factors. There is no ONE theory to fit everyone like that. That was always my problem with the primal wound theory.

I have no doubt that Dawn "read" her daughter correctly. My daughter did not have that reaction as a newborn. Maybe the difference being that her first mom didn't hold and cuddle and feed and love her for the first 3 days of her life. When I arrived & she was 2 days old - I was the first consistency. I didn't put her down again until she was 5 weeks old! LOL (Wherein she rolled over from tummy to back the very first time I laid her down! I about fainted!!) ...... I wonder about that being the difference in the too cases. It's a topic for more thought and something I wish I could study.

However, I talked to another friend of mine (also an attachment parent) who is not involved in the adoption world at all (except for through me!) and her reaction was different. She pointed out that her 3 year old grieved leaving my house after a visit (we live 5 hours apart) for 3 days. He was sobbing when he left here. She drove two blocks down the road and had to pull over and hold him for nearly an hour. He cried about it on and off for several days. He most definitely grieved the loss of my daughter & I being around.

He is also brilliant. I've never met a child like him. But after reading more of Dawn's blog it seems that he & Madison are very similar children. (Last time he was here he spent quite some time explaining to me how those big windmills make electricity from the wind and then listing all the appliances in your kitchen that work because of electricity! :2cool: That was the day before his third birthday).

Anyway - I don't know if I think that her grief is necessarily just because of a "primal wound" or simply that she LOVES Jessica. K LOVES me. He would walk past my daughter and say "Oh, I just love her so much!" He wants everyone he loves around him all the time. My daughter - even at 9 months - gets really frustrated if everyone in the house won't stay in the same room. She wants us all together all the time. (this gets a bit frustrating ) Just another thought.

Anyway - I so loved and appreciate that eye-opening article and many of the responses on this thread and the other. I will always remember Joy saying on the other thread that she sensed her mom "tense up" during these conversations. I need to make sure that doesn't happen. But reading and listening to the discussions that take place on the Internet are what have gotten me to the place I am. I don't believe I will be uncomfortable with it.

Love is not finite. Loving her first mother does not in any way diminish her capacity to love me. I learned that lesson dealing with my mom, dad (adopted), and dad. It's an important one!

I worry about my daughter's sense of genetic loss mostly these days. She's gorgeous. She has these perfect milk chocolate eyes and she's muscled! She's 9 month's old and she's got TOO DIE FOR deltoids! :namaste: I wonder if she'll ask where her perfect skin came from or why she has those muscles since basically birth.

We don't know who her birth father is. How will I answer those thoughts? How will I help her grieve not having that knowledge? I think I want to have her DNA tested and sent into ..... I can't think of the name of the foundation. That can tell you (most of the time) what area of Africa your ancestry may be from. Since we can't find her birth father perhaps I can still give her a link to something? Anyway. Just my random thoughts.

And while we have an open adoption with her first mother she's currently in jail and is 10 years older than me. Will she be around. What will I do? How will I tell her all this? Will she grieve all that too?

*big sigh*

Oh good grief. Now I'm starting to ramble. No need to comment on my rambling sections!! I'm an overprotective obsessive mother.

Anyway - Nicole. Thank you for posting the article.

I also wanted to add that I've learned since from Dawn that her daughter doesn't in fact normally take to Jessica like that at all. This was a bizarre reaction and not a normal thing for Jessica to do. It really wasn't just an everyday toddler kind of reaction.

I imagine if it was it wouldn't have inspired her to write a specific article about it, KWIM?

I think some of my feelings also come from my "adoptee-lite" experiences. I LOVE my dad. I LOVE my bio dad. I know by bdad well as an adult now. But I most certainly did grieve not growing up with him. It was a gradual thing. I am happy. I was happy. It doesn't negate my emotions about it. It was frustrating as a little kid. I remember well being about 5 and leaving him crying to get in the car with my mom. It was PAINFUL. Just the memory makes my heartache. I think some times we underestimate how deeply children feel things. I am certain (well, I know from asking) that my mother didn't think we had any feelings about it at all. We never told her - so those thoughts must not be happening right? Completely wrong. I knew they would make her uncomfortable so even at 4/5 I kept it to myself.

Just a note - I was a ridiculous 4/5 year old. My mom would say "time to get ready for bed" It was ME who would take my 3 year old brother, my 2 year old sister - bath the three of us, dress us for bed, etc. I was one of those kids and I'm sure it what Dawn is describing is possible.

Is it the norm? Of course not. Is Dawn right about her daughter? She's her mother and she knows her. I don't doubt that.

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:41 pm**

Sorry that's so long. If you made it through to this point I congratulate you!!!!

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:56 pm**

Cam, I read it all. :bateyes:

I'm not completely sure of what to think of Dawn's situation with her daughter. I'm sure she's a great mom who knows her daughter better than anyone. I'm not accusing Dawn of this, but I do worry that people project their feelings onto their kids. I've seen plenty of kids 2-4-years-old have unreasonable melt downs about things or people that you wouldn't assume (or would)
they would have melt downs about. From Elmo dolls, to Uncle J.

If this is some kind of longing for her birth mother and some type of primal wound mourning, than if anything I'm even more unsure of how healthy fully open adoption with visits are.

Adoption Tea Time

Very Interesting Adoption Article

Very Interesting Adoption Article